Here's the central question. How can Trump win the general election? He has this utterly devoted following but it's not anything close to a majority, so he needs voters beyond his base. Where are they going to come from? Just about everyone I know who doesn't love Trump hates him and will never vote for him. So I just don't see how this is going to work. The best thing to do obviously is avoid the problem with Desantis, but right now that doesn't look like it's going to happen.
I read the original column by McCotter a few days ago and have been mulling it over since then; it raises a very compelling question. I have to conclude that GOP populism is just the person and not a movement. What are the principles that enliven the Trump base? What does the orange man bring to the table that any other sensible Republican seeking the nomination doesn't provide, without the bombast and vulgarity that is uniquely Trump. GOP populism is the same as anyone else's populism in that is simply not elite--there is no special principle included in that package. I am not elite either and I would grant that Trump did a well above average job as president (with the exception of COVID management). I would even grant that I beleve he was robbed of a fair election in 2020, but we have several candidate options who could do the same or better without all of the contempt he inspires in a huge number of citizens. If Trump had governed with any principle at all it was just to get out of the peoples' way as much as practical and let them prosper. I beleieve we can get back to that without accepting the extremely high risk another 4 years of Joe Biden and his family of crime.
I agree with everything Bill says, and I too would love to have someone other than Trump, but there's a significant chance we'll be stuck with him. We'll then have to take the steps Bill suggests. But for me, and even for Bill Barr, I believe, Trump would be better than four more years of Biden. I once responded to a family member who claimed I'd vote for a trained monkey if he was a Republican by saying "who says he has to be trained?" I said that in jest, but if Biden's on the ballot I'll go looking for a smart monkey. Jim Dueholm
Yup. What choice to we have? I'd have to be out of my mind to vote for someone who hates the country because it's supposedly a moral cesspool, and also hates me because I'm white. The Dems are at an extremist point where they must be defeated. This in not happy-making given that the alternative may well be DJT, but it's how it is right now.
I think it is more a person than a movement, but I believe there's been a political realignment that will outlast Trump. I think it will be a long time before Democrats will be competitive in rural and small town America, and that Trump has brought some Latinos and blacks to the party who will stay there. He may have made the party less competitive in the suburbs, but there's a good chance some of them will come back once Trump leaves the scene.
I don't think Trump is a sure loser. Yes, he lost three elections, but losses in the first election after he became president are the norm, and the reason he lost in 2022 is that he picked losers. They lost their elections, not Trump. As for 2020, it was a very close election, and while the election fraud charge is without merit, there's a good chance Trump would have won if Democrats hadn't played fast and loose with election laws and hidden the Hunter ball. DeSantis and Trump are polling equally against Biden. I hope DeSantis gets the nod, but haven't written Trump off. Jim Dueholm
Jim -- The suburbs are the key, particularly in the states we need to win this time -- Arizona, Wisconsin, Georgia and Pennsylvania. They all have big cities with big suburbs. We can and should and will have to do better in those suburbs. The keys are (1) emphasize where the Dems are extreme and out of touch on crime, transgender/woke stuff and race-huckstering (all of which affect children at least as much as adults); come to the center on abortion; and hammer that the cost of everything has gone up. The other key is nominate someone other than Trump, whom suburban voters, women in particular, detest and will automatically vote against. Yes, if the country is in bad enough shape, Trump might win anyway, but I'd prefer not to find out. I also don't want to find out what an older and more reckless Trump governs like. The man has some problems, both of personality and character, and they're going to get worse with age.
In other words, both in terms of the prospects for electoral success, and the quality of governance afterwards, we're better with someone else -- DeSantis, Scott, Pence, you name it.
I disagree with that analysis. Nothing DeSantis or anyone else can say will move a single member of Trump's personality cult. That's what makes it a personality cult. The key will be whether the cult is sufficiently large to hand this maniac the nomination yet again. If it is then normal conservatives might do well to consider leaving the GOP's carcus behind and try a new party.
Here's the central question. How can Trump win the general election? He has this utterly devoted following but it's not anything close to a majority, so he needs voters beyond his base. Where are they going to come from? Just about everyone I know who doesn't love Trump hates him and will never vote for him. So I just don't see how this is going to work. The best thing to do obviously is avoid the problem with Desantis, but right now that doesn't look like it's going to happen.
I read the original column by McCotter a few days ago and have been mulling it over since then; it raises a very compelling question. I have to conclude that GOP populism is just the person and not a movement. What are the principles that enliven the Trump base? What does the orange man bring to the table that any other sensible Republican seeking the nomination doesn't provide, without the bombast and vulgarity that is uniquely Trump. GOP populism is the same as anyone else's populism in that is simply not elite--there is no special principle included in that package. I am not elite either and I would grant that Trump did a well above average job as president (with the exception of COVID management). I would even grant that I beleve he was robbed of a fair election in 2020, but we have several candidate options who could do the same or better without all of the contempt he inspires in a huge number of citizens. If Trump had governed with any principle at all it was just to get out of the peoples' way as much as practical and let them prosper. I beleieve we can get back to that without accepting the extremely high risk another 4 years of Joe Biden and his family of crime.
I agree with everything Bill says, and I too would love to have someone other than Trump, but there's a significant chance we'll be stuck with him. We'll then have to take the steps Bill suggests. But for me, and even for Bill Barr, I believe, Trump would be better than four more years of Biden. I once responded to a family member who claimed I'd vote for a trained monkey if he was a Republican by saying "who says he has to be trained?" I said that in jest, but if Biden's on the ballot I'll go looking for a smart monkey. Jim Dueholm
Yup. What choice to we have? I'd have to be out of my mind to vote for someone who hates the country because it's supposedly a moral cesspool, and also hates me because I'm white. The Dems are at an extremist point where they must be defeated. This in not happy-making given that the alternative may well be DJT, but it's how it is right now.
I think it is more a person than a movement, but I believe there's been a political realignment that will outlast Trump. I think it will be a long time before Democrats will be competitive in rural and small town America, and that Trump has brought some Latinos and blacks to the party who will stay there. He may have made the party less competitive in the suburbs, but there's a good chance some of them will come back once Trump leaves the scene.
I don't think Trump is a sure loser. Yes, he lost three elections, but losses in the first election after he became president are the norm, and the reason he lost in 2022 is that he picked losers. They lost their elections, not Trump. As for 2020, it was a very close election, and while the election fraud charge is without merit, there's a good chance Trump would have won if Democrats hadn't played fast and loose with election laws and hidden the Hunter ball. DeSantis and Trump are polling equally against Biden. I hope DeSantis gets the nod, but haven't written Trump off. Jim Dueholm
Jim -- The suburbs are the key, particularly in the states we need to win this time -- Arizona, Wisconsin, Georgia and Pennsylvania. They all have big cities with big suburbs. We can and should and will have to do better in those suburbs. The keys are (1) emphasize where the Dems are extreme and out of touch on crime, transgender/woke stuff and race-huckstering (all of which affect children at least as much as adults); come to the center on abortion; and hammer that the cost of everything has gone up. The other key is nominate someone other than Trump, whom suburban voters, women in particular, detest and will automatically vote against. Yes, if the country is in bad enough shape, Trump might win anyway, but I'd prefer not to find out. I also don't want to find out what an older and more reckless Trump governs like. The man has some problems, both of personality and character, and they're going to get worse with age.
In other words, both in terms of the prospects for electoral success, and the quality of governance afterwards, we're better with someone else -- DeSantis, Scott, Pence, you name it.
I disagree with that analysis. Nothing DeSantis or anyone else can say will move a single member of Trump's personality cult. That's what makes it a personality cult. The key will be whether the cult is sufficiently large to hand this maniac the nomination yet again. If it is then normal conservatives might do well to consider leaving the GOP's carcus behind and try a new party.