I favor the death penalty on grounds of rightful sentence and retribution. For most crimes it's hard to justify a specific sentence on rational grounds. Should a burglar be sentenced to four years, or five, or whatever? For the death penalty, it's easy ---- life taken, life given. And I don't agree with those who argue retribution is an inappropriate basis for punishment. We killed prominent Nazis because they deserved death, not because we wanted to deter others, and we should have killed more of them. As Bill suggests, the death penalty expresses the moral outrage of a civilized society. The claim a state can't take a life is a position, not an argument. Jim Dueholm
One Mans Opinion, Freely Given, and worth ALMOST That Much.
The Death Penalty, it is societies way of saying there are certain acts/crimes (a very few) that if you commit them you forfeit your life. Societies way of saying This Is Beyond The Pale.
"In this recounting, it's not Dzohkar Tsarnaev who's responsible for blowing apart a third grader to die in his father's arms. It's we who are responsible. We failed Tsarnaev -- failed to make him feel welcome in America (not that we did any such thing or that he had any such feeling) or failed to treat his dysfunctional family"
Something I read recently (forget where) that applies to this case. Secularists will never really understand the motives of Jihadists. They can't because they assume The Material is All There Is.
Excellent. Over the years you have persuaded me on this. We differ now only in that I favor a wider application of the penalty. I'd like to see most or all murderers executed, including felony murder and drunk drivers as long as we are sure we have the right guy. Its there some defined standard higher than "reasonable doubt" that could be applied?
I support the death penalty for murder. I think it needs to be used much more often. The main reason is that there is no such thing as a life sentence. It sickens me to see murderers released from prison after 15 or 20 years. It sickens me even more that the less prominent the victim the more likely the release. Not that I want murderers of less prominent victims released. I want all murderers executed. But I don't see why the murderer of an impoverished black child should get out in 10 years while Mark David Chapman dies in prison because his victim is John Lennon. Both should be executed.
However I do think there can be principled opposition to it. The Catholic Church opposes capital punishment (as well as abortion of course). That opposition is religious and principled. Of course that principle is not available to those who oppose the death penalty but are all in on abortion. I agree that a big majority of death penalty opponents dislike their own civilization.
Doug, historically the Catholic Church's position was that the death penalty should be rarely, if ever, used, It was still a matter of conscience. Defense attorneys in cases where the death penalty is sought often argue to the jury that the punishment is reserved for "the worst of the worse" and use Hitler as an example of the standard. I have heard this statement from my fellow parishioners. Most know very little about the death penalty and parrot others. I have not had that luxury: I have imposed the death penalty several times.
I pray for all of the participants in all criminal cases, including defendants. I believe in redemption. That said, there is opportunity for redemption to occur before the ultimate penalty is imposed. The law intentionally makes it difficult to find a death verdict. I think that is as it should be. Once 12 citizens are convinced that death is the only proper punishment, I am galled when governors unilaterally refuse to impose the law. Each of those jurors, witnesses, attorneys and court personnel have had to live the horror of the evil actions. Everyone is fundamentally changed from the experience.
I favor the death penalty on grounds of rightful sentence and retribution. For most crimes it's hard to justify a specific sentence on rational grounds. Should a burglar be sentenced to four years, or five, or whatever? For the death penalty, it's easy ---- life taken, life given. And I don't agree with those who argue retribution is an inappropriate basis for punishment. We killed prominent Nazis because they deserved death, not because we wanted to deter others, and we should have killed more of them. As Bill suggests, the death penalty expresses the moral outrage of a civilized society. The claim a state can't take a life is a position, not an argument. Jim Dueholm
One Mans Opinion, Freely Given, and worth ALMOST That Much.
The Death Penalty, it is societies way of saying there are certain acts/crimes (a very few) that if you commit them you forfeit your life. Societies way of saying This Is Beyond The Pale.
Ron White - Death Penalty - Blue Collar comedy tour: the movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRmmIVnjqfQ
"In this recounting, it's not Dzohkar Tsarnaev who's responsible for blowing apart a third grader to die in his father's arms. It's we who are responsible. We failed Tsarnaev -- failed to make him feel welcome in America (not that we did any such thing or that he had any such feeling) or failed to treat his dysfunctional family"
Something I read recently (forget where) that applies to this case. Secularists will never really understand the motives of Jihadists. They can't because they assume The Material is All There Is.
Excellent. Over the years you have persuaded me on this. We differ now only in that I favor a wider application of the penalty. I'd like to see most or all murderers executed, including felony murder and drunk drivers as long as we are sure we have the right guy. Its there some defined standard higher than "reasonable doubt" that could be applied?
I support the death penalty for murder. I think it needs to be used much more often. The main reason is that there is no such thing as a life sentence. It sickens me to see murderers released from prison after 15 or 20 years. It sickens me even more that the less prominent the victim the more likely the release. Not that I want murderers of less prominent victims released. I want all murderers executed. But I don't see why the murderer of an impoverished black child should get out in 10 years while Mark David Chapman dies in prison because his victim is John Lennon. Both should be executed.
However I do think there can be principled opposition to it. The Catholic Church opposes capital punishment (as well as abortion of course). That opposition is religious and principled. Of course that principle is not available to those who oppose the death penalty but are all in on abortion. I agree that a big majority of death penalty opponents dislike their own civilization.
Doug, historically the Catholic Church's position was that the death penalty should be rarely, if ever, used, It was still a matter of conscience. Defense attorneys in cases where the death penalty is sought often argue to the jury that the punishment is reserved for "the worst of the worse" and use Hitler as an example of the standard. I have heard this statement from my fellow parishioners. Most know very little about the death penalty and parrot others. I have not had that luxury: I have imposed the death penalty several times.
I pray for all of the participants in all criminal cases, including defendants. I believe in redemption. That said, there is opportunity for redemption to occur before the ultimate penalty is imposed. The law intentionally makes it difficult to find a death verdict. I think that is as it should be. Once 12 citizens are convinced that death is the only proper punishment, I am galled when governors unilaterally refuse to impose the law. Each of those jurors, witnesses, attorneys and court personnel have had to live the horror of the evil actions. Everyone is fundamentally changed from the experience.